so called "lifetime" warranties

i guess the fortress crew can breathe easier now that hugh jass has a new target to focus on...

come on nate, let 'er rip!

i ripped the back end out of a helly hansen jacket skiing the trees in whistler, i took it down to the shop and they fixed it pretty damn quick and so well that you couldnt even tell the back was ripped off. for nothing! Amazing, i was very happy with there policy, and would buy there product based solely on this experience alone.

prayforsnow

Wow, very impressive... I should try that, I've got a mangy old mec pack my dad gave me, I think he bought it in the 70's, carried my books through high school and college, few straps ripped off at air ports etc. Will give that a try.

Sorry Core....can't see any reason to piss on this thread haha.

nate

Sounds like Mountain Hardware could use a little work on their policies.

The way I typically explain "Lifetime" warranties is that if the article is in good condition, but one part doesn't work (I've used zippers as an example) it will be repaired or replaced. If the item is just "used up" (wear and tear all over, been used quite a while) it isn't covered.

Have you brought it to the attention of the shop that sold the MH to you? A little talk/pressure there may get you some action, I know I'd be inclined to make some phone calls if a customer came to me with this story.

On a related note, I had a good MEC story last year. I lost the stopper for a 1L thermos from there. I was hoping I could buy a new stopper. I'm not near a MEC, so I emailed them with this question. BTW, this model thermos is no longer sold by MEC. The guy on the end of my email searched a couple parts bins, found a stopper (reportedly the last one) and mailed it to me free of charge. Now that's service! I expected to buy it and pay postage and had to do neither.

Update this post if you have any luck with MH. Until then it won't be hard for me to avoid their product...lots of good companies out there these days.

Mountain Hardwarw story- pants weren't water proof anymore and snow stuck on them like a magnet to a fridge. Gaiters were torn and some rips from ski edges. Sent them with a nice letter saying i really liked these pants but... They sent the pants back no repairs, no warranty, and my letter back in the box! Cheeky SOB's. I'll never Buy MH again.

Patagonia and Arcteryx have great warranties! Patagonia warranties gloves even! MEC even warrantied a pair of shitty Fritshi bindings that I didn't even buy there and then let me swap them for a pair of Dynafits!!
All in all though sometimes warranties seem like a crap shoot but I guess it if we're gonna pay the high sticker price of gear these days they better have a rock solid guaranty!

I had it explained to me that the term 'lifetime' doesn't mean your lifetime, only the lifetime of the materials in the gear. Be it 1, 2 or 10 years.

oh, and if you happen to get duplicate copies of the catalog, be afraid, be very afraid.

hugh jair & bradd2,

This stuff really pisses me off.

MH love guys like you, one attempt at getting something warranteed, they say no and you quit trying. For crying out loud, you paid big money for these fucking overpriced products for what? For the lifetime warranty, and supposed top notch quality product (which BS, they're all made by 6 year old kids in China no matter what he tag states). Now, the product has failed, so they better hop-to-it in resolving the issue. Call them back, talk to a manager and if that doesn't work, call again and talk to another manager, call back and talk to the fucking owner(s) and ask him/her/them what kind of fucking chicken show they're running here. Lifetime warranty means LIFETIME WARRANTY! What are your suppose to do, buy a $500 jacket and let it sit in the closest, so you don't void the warranty. BTW, when did using a product for what it was meant to be used for, voids the warranty. If they want to charge people big money for what they claim is high-end outdoor equipment, they better standby their product. I'm sure your local paper would love to do an article on how these fuckers don't standby there overprice crap. Of cousre NF replace all the zippers, they are aware that, that jacket they sold you for $200+ only cost them $5.00 ($10 tops).

These asshole will soon start selling erasers and give a lifetime warranty on them, and when you write them asking for a new eraser, they tell you to go fuck yourself, and say "what eraser" and I'll probably never hear from you again.

Don't let some fucking jack off say no to you, when you know they're wrong. Stand up for yourself, be tenacious. Get on the phone rip everyone you speak to a new one, if they say no to you. Eventually, someone with brains and good business sense who will say yes.

Sorry I had to vent, I know its not easy dealing with these types of companies.

theres a simpler way to deal with dirtbag lying companies like that - suck up your loss, and let the hypocrisy be as public as possible. cause while we may be dirtbags for the most part here, we still like nice gear and will pay at least a little for it. now MH has lost a bunch of potential suckers due to HJ's rant and who will i'm sure pass on the info to their gear buying buds. now that will hurt a company worse than yelling at a faceless dude on the other end of the phone.

ps.. i used to really love yelling at people.. but eventually found out it didn't really get me anywhere..

So not talking warranties here, but how long SHOULD a product (pack, jacket, etc) last?

not defending MEC, MH, TNF or any retailers, just wondering what you expect from a product.

Also not talking about your life, the products live, YKK's zippers life. etc

It depends on how hard you are on the equipment, and the quality. I have a sierra design jacket that has been through hell and back for the past 7 years and its still top notch. Zippers, who knows, they can last for ever and some a week. Sometime they can be faulty or you can damage them pretty easy by not lining the zipper up right when zipping it up. However, if its lifetime warranty is should come close to lasting a lifetime, lol.

Coreshot, your right my advice is not to yell at everyone at the company, and yes you'll get more (ahhh) iguana's with honey....I just think that you can keep asking until you find the right person to help.

Oscar fear not that was not the last that MH will hear from me, and as core will easily confirm I have over the years gotten the nickname "warranty king" from several friends,

having been on both ends let me tell you first hand that having attitude being pissy and "demanding" stuff to random bureaucrats in some office will 99% of the time get you nothing at all.

i have found the " hey i really liked your product and would love to continue wearing/speaking of/advrtising it for you, however i have this lil problem that i am sure you could fix for next to nothing"....this aproach has kept me in new gear more than you would imagine, new laptops, new car stuff, the calm polite with a valid gripe but expressed rationaly witll always get results.

convince them you will continue to support and buy theire products and they are much more likely to help you than if you call and bitch and so on. i just need to cool down first because hearing MH tell me its gonna be 90$+ shipping for each zipper when the seamstress does it for 20 bucks...arggghhh..

so relax, breath deep and will call the canadian distributor after the weekend ;)

as for the other question,

throwing the term "lifetime" is a slippery slope and maybe they should avoid it, lifetime means lifetime...whos lifetime could be argued for ages, so if they ment the product and believe it has a 10 yr span than just say 10yr warranty? would solve lots of issue.

as for what is lifetimed.. well not the weakest link i would say, if the coat is bombr and can last decades but is build with a crappy 2$ zipper that lasts 3 winters..then yea you should fix it.

but i have other garments that have literally been worn out, when the fabric is so thin you can almos see through it, or tears start occuring in random spots just from bending over...thats done and lived its usefull life..

i dont really like the new TNF, but i will say they are one of the best companies i have dealt with for warranty issues. I can guarantee that 700$ winter bag i am shopping for will likely not say mountain hardware on it.

HJ, I completely agree with you. I'm happy to hear that you are learned in the ways of warranty and that they have not heard the last of you. I was just getting workd up for you. I may need to get some warranty advice from you in the future. Let us know how it turns out.

BTW, about your garments that have worn thin, are they lifetime warranty? If so, then then its faulty material (hahahaha).

mntlion, I would expect to get 100-500 days of use out of something before it significantly deteriorates.

I've had a backpack from mec that's way past 500 and still in good shape. I also have a pair of cycling gloves with holes in them from exactly 1 month of use. My g-rides are at about 300 days right now and are showing some use, I'm cool with that.

I'm certainly not recommending going agro on the person on the end of the phone to get service. The "I like your product, but..." approach is always the first and best course. Pointing directly to the "bad press" (i.e.: this thread, internet consumer review postings) is your "last resort" when trying to get warranty service. Sounds like you know how to mange it just fine.

As far as expected product lifetime (mntlion) goes, it would have to vary a lot on a per product basis. When I wore out a pair of gloves after 2 years of heavy use, I felt they had served me quite well. When my piece-of-shit Gerber multi-tool broke after 1 month, I was pissed. I haven't even sent it in because I can't see it being worth the postage to get something fixed when it's such a lousy product that it's just going to break again the next time I use it. I don't expect replacement jackets for life when I buy a new ski shell, but I think it should get a good few years of trouble free use. Same with a pack. Skis, well a lot of it's in how you treat them (I maintain mine obsessively, so I expect a good life out of them), if I dropped onto a rock and blew a sidewall though, or didn't keep them waxed, tuned and taken care of...well that's my own damn fault, shouldn't be up to the company that made them. I could point to the way Oakley has handled my warranty issues as an exemplary one. My goggles have served quite well for six seasons now. They replaced lens' when I was having an issue there, but I wouldn't expect them to take care of a big scratch since that would be my fault (though they actually did that as well, kudos Oakley). When my DNA jacket sucked right out of the gate (waterproofness, easily torn), I knew I wasn't going to buy the product again so didn't even bother to nag them -- it was just a poor product for something that was supposed to retail at $650.
Well, with that, I'm going to go out to the garage and wax some skis, and I have some skins that need trimming. Feed the stoke! Soon we'll all be using our equipment instead of talking about it (aqua toque excepted of course, ...already out in the pass :evil: )

HJ, your post was interesting to me...

I haven't bought North Face gear in almost 10 years (because I found that the quality of their gear had gone around then), but I definitely remember my experience with their warranty... I sent back a gore-tex jacket with a small bit of 'delamination' on the sleeve -- jacket was two years old, including 150 days in whistler -- they replaced the jacket with a brand new one, no charge.
So it's cool to see that they're consistent and still doing the same thing. Yeah North Face! I agree with Oscar completely -- a $500 jacket BETTER have a damn good warranty! BOO to Mtn Hardware -- two stories is enough for me to not buy their product.
MEC is still hands down the best company I know of for warranty and repair and member service. I've worked there and have plenty of stories like those on this thread.

Yeah but on the warranty-complaint tip, get this one: I needed a new Nalgene, was living in Nelson, so no MEC. I go into VALHALLA PURE, and all they've got are some "imitation nalgene"-type bottles. I'm skeptical, but WTF, it's just a water bottle. It costs me like 10 bucks, and its got the name "valhalla pure" printed right on it. Well whaddya know, a month later I screw the lid on and the entire lid screws right apart, piece of junk. Sure it's just a bottle, but you can imagine how much of a piss off it is to be in the backcountry and your water bottle is shot.
So I bring it to Valhalla Pure (now in Grande Prairie to start tree-planting) -- and they tell me, no new bottle, and no new lid!! Can you imagine, the lids cost a F**kin' dollar and they refuse to give me one. It's got their name right on the bloody product. I tossed my change on the counter and said I'd never shop at their store again. The manager said fine, and lost a good customer for a matter of 95 cents. Unbelievable. It's amazing to me that people running these companies don't see how small the "outdoor community" really is. This thread's the perfect example....

i have found North Face to be 100% soild on there life time deal , they have been nothig but great to me, 3 new mountain jackets latter during a spane of about 12- 15 yrs , long live the N FACE :D :twisted:

this is a weird crowd. i would expect a company to repair something that was faulty, like if a zipper fails or stitches come out within a couple years, and thats great if a company like north face or whoever chooses to fixe something that is 10 years old, but some of you seem like you expect your jacket or pack to last forever, and if it doesn't it should be fixed for free and come back with a coupon for a free blowjob??? no one forces you to buy a 600 dollar jacket, and frankly, if you do you are a bit of a tit anyway. my kids have less entitlement issues than most of the people in this topic. yikes. "too much snow sticks to my pants" get the fuck out of here.

by this logic if you by a 20,000.00 vehicle it should last a bazillion decades and your 20.00 toaster should only last 2 weeks.

FWIW, I've had great service from Sierra Designs.

I bought their flagship 3-ply Goretex jacket around 8 years ago and wore that jacket almost every day during the winter and spring months. Over the course of the following 3 years, I probably wore it around 500 times and washed it maybe half a dozen times since it was light orange in color.

I eventually noticed that the seam tape was starting to come off in the back so I returned it to my store. To my surprise, SD decided to replace the entire jacket because applying new tape wouldn't guarantee that the jacket would remain 100% waterproof. They offered to send me their newest and greatest XCR jacket in a color of my choice.

I'm still using that jacket and I'll continue to buy from them when I replace this with the new Goretex Pro.

Oh yeah, I have to give my props to MEC as well. Never had a problem with them. In fact, back in 2002, I bought a Arcteryx Khamsin pack from them, used it for a 100km backpacking trip the following day... only to notice that it didn't fit that well. After completing the trip, I returned it for a full refund.

:wink:

nadz, i think you confuse the issue here, the fact that Nf replaced the zippers free of charge is wonderfull as i would've had no problem had they said "hey these are old and very worn, well charge you X amount to repair..just like a seamstress.

My issue with MH is that i was not "demanding" anything merely going trough them since in my opinion a zipper that stops working completely when the rest of the jacket still looks like it just came off the shelf is an issue, people pay top dollar for quality garments for a reason.. you say you dont need a 600$ jacket, lucky you, i happen to know from personal experience over my 32years of being on skiis that yes i do want a quality garment and other will let me freeze, or get wet, or not breath..and again end up wet etc etc etc, for me its not about the name on the coat its about fit and function,,and hopefully QUALITY. i asume that with that sticker price the quality comes with it and if a zipper doesnt work then yes i see that as a quality issue.

as mentioned earlier the price these items cost to us VS the production/profit they make is ridiculous. now thats not my problem and i dont argue it however knowing this, when a 5$ zipper that could be fixed for less than a case of beer, should in fact be fixed, specialy when they advertise and claim "lifetime" warranty,but then gets totally blow off cause they already have your money is not right. all it does is guarantee that next time i look for and subsequently buy a high end/high price garment it wont be from them. so from a company point of view suck up 20$ and keep me buying high price gear from them seems like a no brainer.

as for your car example, again its not about price its about the "warranty" you are suppose to have.

if my car, regardless of price has something wrong with it your damn right i am bringing it to the dealer and they are going to solve the issue...when said warraty runs out..then i am S.O.L.

thus my initial point, if a company thinks said item should only last "x" amount of time, then make that the warranty rather than misleading you with terms like "lifetime".

I do like MH products and this is my first unpleasant dealing with them..which is really too bad, because thats all it takes to leave a bad taste in your mouth.

Well Stated HJ.

Nadz, I bet when you buy a new vehicle that has bumper-to-bumper warranty, and something goes wrong with it...you say to the dealer "no, no, no I don't want the warranty, I'll pay for it...you didn't make enough profit on the vehicle when you sold it to me...actually here's a $1000 tip for your time, and can I blow you before I leave!"

Mind you, that's how most of us feel when we leave a car dealership.

http://www.biglines.com/msgbrd/viewtopic.php?t=10761&highlight=warranty

i don't know much about clothing warrantys but most warrantys (car/bike/ski etc)cover workmanship and defects
not wear and tear...

personally by the time my clothes wear out they are good for National One Piece day or the goodwill....and Cyrex in Calgary does most companies repair work covered by warranty or not...i can't recall a zipper ever costing more than 15$ to replace...

Actually, by the reasons presented in this forum, your statement should read like this:

Now, I do think that only a fool would pay that much for a toaster, no matter what wi-fi or water repelancy capabilities it may be purported to have, but if there were such a toaster I think it would be quite reasonable to expect it to greatly outlast it's $20 brethren.

I don't think anyone has come on here arguing that a company should have to replace/repair a product that's simply worn out.

As for a sense of entitlement, I'm quite old enough to choose what is worth my money. I spend a lot of time using the gear I buy every year, I'd be a fool not to get the best that I can afford. Should I go skiing on Firefly skis from Sport Check, wearing my cotton socks and undies, a pair of sweat pants, and a yellow rubber rain jacket? ...ok, so it would be funny...and maybe I will...but not every day.

update....

after nothing but getting the run around on the phone from MH and trying in the most polite,calm way to express my concerns, specially getting charged 20$ for shipping to have them send back with nothing done i got fed up.

seamstress in canmore fixed BOTH mh coats for a whopping 6$ each..turned out it was only the slider that was dead and did not need a whole new zipper.

glad i have the coats back for such a measly fee but also frustrates me even more knowing that MH could've replaced the sliders for under 10$cost and kept a happy customer buying there gear.

a zipper slider means they surely lost future sales from me, and likely from friends who have heard the deal as well...

booo urns on you MH

HJ, Sorry to hear how they have treated you so poorly. If you have a few minutes, write a big old nasty good-bye letter to MH (Director of Sales). Explain to them what you went through and how a $10 zipper has now cost them thousands in sales and a tarnished name amongst the mountain community. Also, send them a link to this thread and others…I sure if you search the other boards you’ll find threads just like this one about MH products. Let them see how their bad business and poor customer service is being discussed and going unnoticed.

Taiga Works based in Vancouver has a good policy. I had an old gortex coat that was about 8 years old and just plain worn out. It leaked and had taken on that real nice supple feel of thrashed fabric. I sent it back when I hard they would warranty their gear not thinking I'd get anything. They called me and told me that without the original receipt the best they could do was give me credit for a new coat based on what it was worth new 8 years ago. They looked it over and decided it was indeed 8 years old and gave me full credit towards a new one. all I had to pay was the inflation difference of about $80 plus shipping. Pretty sweet.

Here is a great story:

This past Monday my friend and I were going to go ski some Lake Louise slackcountry and before we could get going my buddy skied down from Top of the World, cranked a turn and had his binding rip out from his ski. He had GOODE carbon skis with dynafit bindings, the toe piece ripped out from the ski. The day was a no go, so he drove into to Calgary to MEC where he bought the skis. They were 2 years old and he didn't have a receipt, they let him pick out a new pair of skis off the shelf (any pair) and they refunded the difference from the original price of his old skis with cash! That is amazing service.

It's kind of funny that this whole thing is about MH. Recently, a customer brought in an old MH rain jacket that had come apart in the inside. Seam tape was peeled off, and the inside coating had peeled off.

The jacket was about 4-5 years old, and I sent it back to MH. A few weeks later, a brand new jacket showed up in the mail with absolutely zero charge. We just paid for the shipping to MH (which was then passed on to the customer) and they covered their shipping back.

I deal with a lot of brands as far as warranty goes, and so far the only brands I've ever had a problem with are Garmont and Coalision (Orage Canada Distributor). Ugh... what a pain.

That's it though, Arc'teryx is amazing, Marmot is pretty good, etc. etc.

So it's my fifth to seventh ski day on a pair of Spyder snow pants when i look down on the chairlift and the inseam from my thigh to my calf is ripped open, filled with snow with insulating fill flapping in the breeze. The snow injection was enough to blast open the made in china single stiched inseam on the outer side. So.... i guess it's time to send it back for that "lifetime warranty" except for the following problems..

I check the Spyder website ( http://www.spyder.com/about.faqs.asp#2 )and apparently
repair isn't possible because

1. I live outside the USA so warranty only applies to goods purchased in the US,

2. Even if i did buy them in the states i would have to wash them (likely completely destroying the leg with the stuffing sticking out) and then ship them at my own expense to Colorado.

3. I'd have to find my orginal $250 reciept from the place i bought them from last year.

4. I could phone them (at my own expense as there is no 1800 number) and rant and rave, but i'd rather post about it here.

So I'll just have to pay some seamstress (or convince my mom) to properly triple stitch them mofo's back together as it will be less hassle and money than doing it through them (if they are so gracious to repair a Canadian bought product)

I have never had any equipment that has been destroyed as easily as these chinese made POS's. I will never in my life buy another Spyder product.

If riding waist deep powder is enough to blow the stitching open then they better stick to making racing lycra and stretch pants.

take your pants back to the store you bought them at (250$ for Spyder?? are they real?) and the canadian distributor will take care of it (assuming you are in canada and all)
or simpler, assuming you are in calgary, go to cyrex on elbow and heritage by the dairy queen and they will fix them (they do most of the companies warranty work anyways) it will cost you less than shipping....

yup they are real, but returning them to the store would involve a 5 hour drive to kelowna from my home in Vancouver. My mom agreed to fix them but my point is that Spyder shouldn't make it as difficult as they do for Canadians to have their lifetime warranty honored.

That and outsourcing jobs to China results in quality issues that cost these companies customers in the long run.

Buy Canadian whenever possible.