Canadian Treason!!!

Funny thing is regardless of who was in office, they would have been blamed for the current economic state of the country. This is gonna be a wild ride!

It's time to revive western separatism. Republic of Alberta anyone?

Don't know half as much about Canadian policies as I should do. Who's who?

All I know is, Canada has:
-one of the largest territories in the world
-a young and energetic and entrepreneurial population
-can take it's pick from millions of people who want to make it their home
-some of the largest oil reserves in the world
...which it doesn't actualy need
-unparalleled natural resources
-unparalleled access to the increasingly important and valuable north west passage
-Tim Hortons
-great looking scenery
-kick ass skiing
-pleanty of water

The people are nice too!

So if the rest of the world is laughing, it's because they wish their future was as bright.

So forget the politicians, and stop worrying. :) :lol:

:!: :!: :!:

Yo bro. You need to calm down. Follow these steps.

1. drive to a mountain
2. shred some pow
3. return and post more once you feel better (preferably something stoke-related, but whatever)

Dr. Crank..

I'm on it. That's the best medical advise a good Dr could ever give!.

Again sorry about the rant...just don't like getting highjacked.

Steve R...I love this country (its people, opportunities, natural beauty, snow and girls). Maybe that's why it is so easy to get worked up. Just want to keep it the best place it can be.

Time to get medicated!

Allright, I agree with your prescription, but where do you fill it out? With this weather, it looks like the only pharmacy is in Smithers! :D

Fatman, yes that could be a problem. If powder is lacking, replace no.2 with "slay nearest cat-track". Not an ideal by any means, but may be effective in limited doses.

The guys that want to topple:
NDP are left. Liberals are centre-left. The Bloc is separatist, but leftish I guess.

The soon to be toppled:
Harper and the Conservatives are right/centre-right.

We just got some snow -- so hit up the mountains.

Sorry this has to be said ... everything that is on the table - aka the coalition, is 100% the fault of our current PM .. he pushed the other parties to the brink. Not to start a s-torm but the easy solution to avoid all this is for Harper to hand off the reigns to someone else - if that happened, the coalition would back down.

Story finished.

Except that that won't happen because the PM is a total control freak.

Thank god it finally snowed in the mountains so this weekend i don't have to hear about the political situation.

It wouldn't have happened in the first place if Harper hadn't run his minority government like a majority. Taunting the opposition by making everything a confidence vote then making fun of their character when they wouldn't vote things down. A minority government (or on a longshot, this coalition) has the potential to do the most good because all parties have a chance to be involved, unlike the conservative monopoly here in Alberta. Unfortunately the federal kids, can't get along and have to disagree, argue, and backstab on party principle. They all suck, the coalition will have a tough time, but Harper, and his backroom mould-us-into-America ways, is the biggest knob of all.

you're right god forbid he try to get anything done without pandering to special interest groups always looking for handouts...

Every single one of them is a special interest group. Party supporters (sheep) all think they are the only ones not being idiots and holding up progress.
Every one of them has some good ideas, it's just when they don't listen to the other party's good idea because it's the other party's good idea and not theirs.

I finally broke down and joined this forum 'cause I can't stand the comments made by a certain member.

you should seriously get a clue. First, unprecedented would imply it's never been done(read a little canadian politcal history). Second, it's not a firckin' coup, it's a part of being a constitutional monarchy where if the governing minority party can't get anything done(or is too arrogant), then the opposition can come together and form the government. Third, it's Harper's fault if we're the laughing stock considering his arrogance triggered this. Fourth, Coalition governments have worked in Europe, so why not here? Go spend the money you save by not being able to buy a RCR pass on some classes or a book or 2, then people might take you seriously!

anyways, once the snow falls it doesn't really matter what happens back east.....let's go skiing

Ahhh, a voice of truth, and reason.

powder_junkie...

Dude you are more uptight then I get after a few Jack's and a heated debate with my 3rd step mom who has a hidden agenda for my inheritence.

That's my excuse for getting excited last night. I think yours is the bleak conditions in your neck of the woods.Man made snow has never felt so good. Took Dr Cranks advice and I am a new man!

"you should seriously get a clue. First, unprecedented would imply it's never been done(read a little canadian politcal history)."

This was a quote from our beloved CBC's website. Cut and paste.

"Second, it's not a firckin' coup, it's a part of being a constitutional monarchy where if the governing minority party can't get anything done(or is too arrogant),"

Sorry I was drinking some good Russian vodka last night and the word just sounded so romantic at the moment. I should have said "this is a frickin highjacking of my vote and alot of other fellow democratic Canadians"

"Third, it's Harper's fault if we're the laughing stock considering his arrogance triggered this."

Dude's got bad hair and probably knows it. Kind of like any other person lacking of anything syndrom (i.e snow). But if the coalition gets in I'm sure the world is going to think great things of a Prime Minister who is getting kicked out of his own party in a few months. High confidence there.

"Fourth, Coalition governments have worked in Europe, so why not here? Go spend the money you save by not being able to buy a RCR pass on some classes or a book or 2, then people might take you seriously!"

This is not Europe. 8 days on my RCR pass, had enough school for a while and I am enjoying a new fat TV that does wonders for the porn channel to read too much.

"anyways, once the snow falls it doesn't really matter what happens back east.....let's go skiing"

Fckn agree with you 110% brother!!! See what skiing can do for our world! Go Ullr, go Griz!!! :P 8) :P 8)

PS...I'm always honored to be a certain member.

Agree 100% with LID and Powder_Junkie. Particularly the comment about Harper not running his government as a minority -- that's been the big-picture problem for over a year now.

And all of this nonsense about the coalition being "undemocratic" (or even "high-jacking votes" as ski_bro says) is really off-base. It is entirely democratic, and completely legitimate. It's how a parliamentary democracy works. Notice that it's actually based upon a VOTE, and that the vote is based on the number of people elected to the house in the last election. So no one is "ignoring the results" of the last election; this is based on it! If Harper had actually gotten more votes (seats) he'd have a majority and this couldn't happen. As it stands, more people voted against Harper than for him. He lost more seats than he won! That's the point. Dion and Layton together have more seats than him -- so as a coalition party, they can form the government.

What's more, is that Harper obviously knows all this! Him calling this "undemocratic" etc. is cynical and stupid -- he's known the threat of this happening has been there all along and he threw it in his opponent's faces.

LID said it best, that harper has been "Taunting the opposition by making everything a confidence vote then making fun of their character when they wouldn't vote things down"...
So he called their bluff, and this time they weren't bluffing. The opposition just pulled the trigger and the whole thing has blown up in Harper's face. Good move Harper. Real leadership.

And okay, one last point, on the BLOC... gimme a break. For starters they aren't part of the official coalition; they have said they'll "support it". They've agreed to keep all separatism issues off the table for 18 months. And it's ridiculous to think that Dion, who wrote the Clarity Act, would allow Canada to break apart any more than Harper, who also allied with the BLOC just last year to pass legislation. More stupid fear tactics from a desperate Harper I think...

Glad to see the powder helped you out though Ski_bro! I wish! I'm too sick to ski, which is evidently why I'm at home writing essays on big lines... ;)

looks like some powder coming this weekend. about time. Stupid governor general, now we're going to have to listen to every one of these bums spouting off for the whole next month and a half, lying through their teeth. It's going to be worse than christmas commercials.
baaah humbug!

You forgot teh hot wimmens.

Here's a few of my observations:

1) Harper taunted the house with an attempt to pass partisan policies under the guise of the economic crisis. The house called his bluff and is giving him the boot.

2) Unless you live in Harper's riding - you didn't vote for him; you voted for your MP. Every MP is voted in, they make up parlimant, and they run the house. However any majority of MPs want to align themselves determines our government. The "coalition" is legit, although extreme, whether you like it or not.

3) Harper and the conservatives and all of the supporters are ranting about the "grave danger" of putting the "seperatists" in power. That is a joke and fear mongering the ignorant at its best. Any and every Bloq seat in the house was voted in by Canadians and regardless of who is in power, the Bloq has as much sway in the house as however many seats it has. Nothing has changed.

4) The "have" and "have not" status of Canadian provinces is dynamic. When the oil industry collapsed in the 80s leaving Calgarians walking away from homes; it was boom-time in Ontario. Now, the tables have turned. When I lived in Ontario, in the 80s, i remember the same types whinning about "transfer payments". Quit your whinning. We are a country east to west; the wealth comes and goes; don't be so short-sited to want to "take the money and run" just cause we (i live in calgary now) are making hay.

5) All things considered under the current global environment, I think a minority conservative government is/was a good thing. However, I think Harper is a snake (even moreso than the others). He pushed his luck way too far, and the playground has now revolted against the bully, and the bully is running scared. Harper brought this on and Conservatives, more than anyone, should be pissed at him more than anybody else.

ha ha.... i should have read your post before i made mine. I'm with you 100%.

Regardless of who you support or what your politics are, all of your main points are factual and accurate.

Anyways... if this weather keeps up i'll be looking to surf this xmas!

The Libs and NDP were proposing a coalition government with the support of the Bloc. Unfortunately between them they hold 114 seats. The Conservatives hold 143 seats. Therefore they cannot form a government. The only way they could form a government would be to bring the Bloc into coalition and giving them seats in cabinet, which would be ludicrous, preposterous and completely absurd. The fact they would even agree to negotiate and work with a party who's stated mission is to break apart this country puts it into the above stated realm. Michaelle Jean made the right decision to prorogue parliament. If the conservatives go down in a non-confidence motion in January then call another election. Dion is an unworthy leader of this nation and lost an election which was his to win. All he and Jack Layton are trying to do grab power in an even more disgusting fashion than Harper clings to it.

powslut, touche.

those are totally valid arguments i think. I'm not as worked up about the Bloc being a part of the government, but I can understand why people would feel like you do... I also agree that Dion has been a pretty weak leader in many ways, and probably shouldn't be leading the party (or our country). And I agree that cabinet positions for Bloc members is too much.
I don't get too hung up though on the whole "separatist mission" of the party though... i dunno, it just doesn't scare me. And a coalition getting power through a vote of non-confidence is totally legitimate to me. To me the ideal would be that this all just serves to put Harper in his place - he maintains power but learns his lesson and starts getting sh*t done... guess we wait 'till january to find out!

...you know what's good to see? that so many of us have actually informed opinions and knowledge about these things -- sometimes it feels like the "average person" out there is so ignorant of this stuff, but obviously people have been paying a lot of attention and think about it... that's my thought anyways.

I'm traveling abroad right now and Canada is in the headlines for this fiasco. It's kind of sad really.

The whole thing is frustrating to me. It all seems so petty and not in my best interests. We JUST had an election to get this kind of stuff settled.

Harper does sketch me out, but I think he and his party are way better at managing the country than Dion or Layton, who I view as totally incapable of running the show.

Just like to apologize for the disjointed writing in my response. For some reason I couldn't string together a grammatically cohesive sentence yesterday.

wew wrote:4) The "have" and "have not" status of Canadian provinces is dynamic. When the oil industry collapsed in the 80s leaving Calgarians walking away from homes; it was boom-time in Ontario. Now, the tables have turned. When I lived in Ontario, in the 80s, i remember the same types whinning about "transfer payments". Quit your whinning. We are a country east to west; the wealth comes and goes; don't be so short-sited to want to "take the money and run" just cause we (i live in calgary now) are making hay.

uuuh the oil industry didn't collapse, it was killed by the NEP and i think if you check your facts there sure weren't any transfer payments coming to Alberta at the time (if ever i went back to 1957 the year the current system started and AB has never received "payments")
as far as walking away from homes we didn't walk away from the family farm it was taken from us by a fucked up Lieberal policy and nothing in the intervening 25+ years has shwn me the Lieberals have learned how to do anything better....

and it's not a policy of take the money money and run, it's apolicy of keep the money i make and use it how i see fit not some talking head in Ottawa (including the CPC) sees fit...

the federal government should exist for foreign relations and defense only, regional problems/issues/benefits should be worked out at the provincial level....

fair enough, i guess we have to agree to disagree... i've lived and worked in 4 different provinces and I support the concept of sharing the wealth as it fluctuates.

my facts regarding the "collapse" of the oil industy in the 80s is just to point out that every grey haired calgarian i work with talks about those days in those terms; my point being that the good times come and go...

thought this was funny.

Edmonton Oilers declared 2008 Stanley Cup Champions

It has just been announced that the Edmonton Oilers are named the

new 2008 Stanley Cup champions. They have entered into a coalition

with the Calgary Flames and the Vancouver Canucks. Together they

have decided that they had more wins last season than the Detroit

Red Wings and have declared themselves the champs. Although they

did not make the playoffs, they feel there is no need to have

another playoff run as it is better for the league to just name

Edmonton the champs. Shawn Horcoff has declared himself as the Hart

Trophy winner saving the league time on having to go through with

lengthy voting process. Detroit will have until Monday December 8,

2008 to remove its Stanley Cup banner from Joe Louis arena.

ha :lol:

In other news...

The Red Wings, after winning the cup, have put forward a motion to the NHL to eliminate all training, scouting, and trading programs of opposing NHL teams.

Classic! :D :P

Good discussions here. Definately opens your eyes regardless of your political colours.

At the very least this is a good wake-up call to all parties involved.

would you send me some money then? i don't think i am getting my fair share. if you were unemployed would you move to where jobs are instead of taking handouts? or stay and collect because it was your "right"
i've only worked in 3 provinces but i chose the ski industry as my "career" should i get a handout if winter is late or doesn't come?

next time you talk to the "grey hairs" get a few more details
the "collapse" was a direct result of a centralized gov't imposing policy on one region/industry for the benefit of a more populous (in voters and HoP seats) at the same time as the centralized banks jacked interest rates for pretty much the same reason...

it looks like th crisis has been averted with the Liebrals imploding and possibly Layton being hung by his own words "the people didn't give the CPC 50% of the vote they must submit to this coalition" oops Layton was the only party leader to not get 50% of the votes in his riding coming in at 44% (vs Harper at 70+, Dion at 60%)

Yes, I would move for work. No, you shouldn't get a handout. But, hypothetically, on a grander scale, if the oil&gas and agriculture industries suffered greatly for reasons beyond the direct control of our governments, then I would support the notion of the federal government (with support from a "have" provice) kicking in to prop up Alberta's healthcare, education, infrastructure, etc. That is my point and my view, if you didn't get it the first 2 times.

On your advice, i've done a bit of research about the recession in AB in the 80s. I suppose you'll argue that the liberals orchastrated the droughts, grain surplus, and the collapse of oil prices:

"Alberta’s economy, however, began to deteriorate in the early 1980s. While the world price of oil was $44 a barrel in 1981, in 1986 the price unexpectedly collapsed to $10. As a result of world grain surpluses, furthermore, agricultural prices fell dramatically. A series of dry years in the early 1980s resulted in bankruptcies and rising debt. In response, Don Getty’s Progressive Conservative Party emphasised diversification in high technology, tourism, and forestry. His government also implemented health care, social service, and education cut backs.

By 1982, the realities of the economic recession became apparent to Calgarians – almost 10 percent of the city’s population lived below the poverty line and, by the summer of 1983 – 14.9 percent of Calgarians suffered unemployment. Shocking most Calgarians, the Glenbow Foundation announced that it had run out of money and would shut down. Between April 1982 and 1983 the population declined and repossessions increased. The construction industry most clearly reflected Calgary’s boom and bust cycle" from http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/calgary/1971econ.html Pretty consistent with what i've heard from the grey hairs.