Bow Summit

Yeah,
We were up there on saturday and it was much of the same. People skinning straight up the run out zones and multiple skiers coming down....it was pretty sketchy. Super deep in spots but very thin in others, be careful out there guys.

I was there on Nov 11th and saw similar questionable practices.I Didnt see any slide evidence, but did see ppl bootpacking up that thin chute to that upper bowl/start zone and subsequently skiing it out. Looked pretty sketch to me and like the Avy report said, any slide incurred would definitely involve rocks and stumps.
There were many ppl there that day and most seemed to travel smart. However, there are always a few suspects around who dont know, or dont care, or both.
Be carefull or be early and beat the crowds!

Ya, we were there on saturday and it was pretty much a full-on gong show. I heard one guy clearly comment to his friend as they booted up the cirque that "it's not steep enough to slide" :shock:

FYI, here's a pict that was posted on teletips showing the slide in question:

Pict by oarhead

There was a guy with a video camera filming his friends from the top of the ridge who probably caught the whole thing on tape. I'm sure it'll be on uTube...

My friend Sara and I were out there and didn't see anyone, we were in a far off zone all to ourselves, skied 5 laps 9am-3pm, it was sweet.

I hope I'm not labeled as one of these fools because of that picture I posted of me going for that little air on November 11th. I was a little nervous because I didn't probe the landing area but I knew lots of snow had blown into that gully. At the very least I was skiing with a Lake Louise ski patroler if some carnage did take place. Later that day we watched this kid from Calgary launch a 20 foot cliff!

Didnt see the picture but no worries. You werent doing the line I questioned. ( I think we met up there that day BTW)

Anyway, as for fools, I've been labelled one before, and I dont care. I am confident my education is more than that of the average backcountry enthusiast, and I know how to use it. If ppl dont want to ride with us, thats fine. Then dont call us at 8 in the morning.

My group saw the whole slide happen. We were on the opposing ridge after just skinning up from the trees and were commenting on how sketch the slide causing up track looked. Moments later it ripped out. I took a few pics but none of them are better than Oarheads pic. We were skiing the bowl over at the start of the day but headed to the trees after a couple of laps because of all the people putting in crazy up tracks and traverses in the bowl. It was pure silliness.
Oh and Mike1980 thanks for making me feel young. Going by your screen name I'm actually older than you and that definitely wasn't a 20 footer. I've also skied various little airs all over that feature with caution and without incident.
Take it easy on the up tracks folks and try not to let others judgment or lack thereof affect your own.

I was there on the day the slide happened but did not witness it. The place was a gong show. Lots of lemmings.

natural selection at work.....

FWIW, here are some picts we took of the unfolding scene taken from earlier that day, pre-slide:

Here's a close-up showing the area of thin coverage that eventually ripped out.

GONG SHOW

Lots and lots of people out there aspiring to the Smack Talk, Blogs and Photos on Biglines!!!

I wasn't around to witness the events of the past weekend and don't know who was involved or how experienced/educated they were.

I did witness some bad judgement as I assisted with a Parks Canada rescue in Jasper on the weekend.

My humble opinion... there is way way way too much hype out there and not enough awareness, experience or education. Thousands of people looking at posts on Biglines every day about backcountry skiing. Everyone wants to ski the lines that they see or read about here but very few have any skill to back that up. People think that you just walk up couloirs like 3/4 and Aemer and rip it up. Even our little baby Rae Glacier has huge consequences when things go wrong. More posts and blogs need to mention the hazards involved, discuss the hazard management that is taken on approach and descent, steps that were taken throughout the days adventures to assess the hazards and make the right decisions.

As I skin past parties in the backcountry I flip my beacon to search and it is scary how many people aren't even wearing a beacon. Let these folks know they need to be trained and prepared to play out here!

The MCR and Informalex are fantastic at pointing out the dangers NOT JUST STOKE.

You have some good points there man but you sound more self-righteous than anything. Im not questioning that people need to be informed and make good decisions, but i think its pretty ignorant to think people will charge up something like aemner without timing it right and doing there own investigations.

Like or not, people will take stupid risks with or without internet 'stoke'. Everyone has the right to take risks and adventure on their own terms. If that means they ski big lines in the wrong conditions just to pad their internet status, then mother nature will sort that out.

Also, while i constantly read the MCR's, that is not the point of sites like biglines, teton etc...It is simply to provide stoke and inspire people to push themselves, whether that means a sweet line at sunshine, a first foray into the backcountry, or skiing that big line they've dreamt of.

Mostly, i cant stant the attitude that the backcountry is an exclusive group. The essence of skiing was born in taking risks, which seemed stupid or crazy at the time (eg. Bill Briggs).

Forgot to add, there's only a handful of people posting pics around this area. The most dangerous of all is that crazy guy in the aqua toque.

Sorry about my rant coming accross that way. I don't feel that way at all. :oops: The backcountry is certainly for everyone to enjoy and I didn't mean to be self righteous. :cry:

I definitely agree that everyone needs to take the risks and push the boundaries and envelopes of what we did yesterday... I am simply worried about losing people, fiends stangers or whoever, who are being exposed to the hazards because they were INSPIRED but not INFORMED.

There is no doubt that there was a serious lack of regard for the potential of hazard in the backcountry this weekend. I have been watching this discussion unfold and I hope that many of the people out there this weekend who did or didn't witness the events or who shared the attitude that nothing bad could happen will take this as an early season warning that no matter what the CAA reports or how many other people are out there, that you must use your own education and judgement when it comes to the safety of yourself, your party and those out there in the same viscinity.

Thankfully no one was killed, and because of this we can learn from it. Bow is one of the most popular early and late season destinations and because it made the spotlight so early I hope more regard for safety and concern of others will be regarded more primarily.

Backcountry riding is something that should not be just for some elite group, but it should be reserved for people willing to explore and push themselves with education, gained experience and common sense.

I don't think anyone in this discussion can honestly say they haven't made a stupid choice or lucked out at least once in their time in the backcountry. Let's just keep this to a minimum.

Back country is exclusive, or at least knowledgable BC is. Just like any sport where the people who really know what they are doing are the minority. If the people on this forum who have the experience to push the boundarys don't mention how they determined it was safe to ski a line that day, or even when they decided it wasn't and went somewhere else, how are the newby's going to know that booting up the nearest coulier or avy slope isn't how it's done? Especially when the pictures make aeverythin glook so sweet, and besides, there are tracks on it, must be safe. :?

FYI - here's a link to the Herald story about the slide:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/city/story.html?id=62810743-427a-4b74-9976-75cd5d12462e

I was there and watched this go down. Out of the maybe 7 parties that I saw touring there that day, I thought only 2 where making safe decisions going up and down. I am new this year to touring at BS and the thing that concerns me the most about that place is even if you are traveling safely, people can be doing stupid shit above you. so people, Stop doing stupid shit. Chill out, it is November, make a few turns, and save your radness for controlled areas.

So saying that who has been out where there is snow and less crowds.. want to indulge a good stash? how was Observation, or anyone been out around Field??

Have a safe winter everyone.

Oh and MikeDawg - why don't you make more turns after dropping 20'ers?? ;)

I think its a good point about people being more aware of how backcountry lines are actually skied. I do think that a lot of people seem to focus a lot on 'snowpack analysis' and seeing if the snow is stable, but don't appreciate how 95% of their time backcountry skiing is on the way up... Seems to me that 95% of your risk is nearly eliminated by choosing safe lines on the ascent. Choosing good lines going UP seems like an under-appreciated skill... especially when you see certain up-tracks out there...

And I agree with eldorado, that bc skiing IS a bit of an exclusive sport, and in a way I think it ought to be. Not based on money, gear and vehicles (which, also, is unfortunately the case), but in terms of the knowlege and experience required to participate in the sport safely. I'm still extremely cautious and fairly conservative in the bc, even after investing a few years of very slow progression... cuz' its just so hard to be sure out there, and the consequences are so damn huge... people ought to see that the kind of skiing you're used to doing at the resort is much bolder and reckless than how one should be skiing in the backcountry. At least it is for me. My two cents.

AquaToque, love the photo comment. :)

cs.

Morons. This is Novemeber. This is the Rockies. Can it be any more clear?

I am sorry but I was up on the saturday at bow summit and was there ever a lot of bitching going on from people who didn't even examine the aspects being skied. How many of you honestly took snow temp/humidity measurements, dug a pit or even properly cut faces before skiing them? I sure didn't see a lot of that going on, but oh wait the assholes that skied the couloir, oh ya they did that. Just to remind everyone here, conditions change day to day. Colder temperatures, a decrease in humidity and a hell of a lot of windloading occurred that saturday night before the incident on a slope that was skied the day before. Comparing the actions taken on saturday, to those on sunday is night and day due to the weather patterns experienced saturday night. I sincerely resent certain individuals calling me a fool when absolutely no incidents occurred as a result of my well informed actions.

I go through life tilted at least 7 degrees, and photoshopping can only help.

However, I understand the original poster's point. from now on, no ski pics...just curling...lots and lots of curling...

I am going to have to add a few more things here. Since everyone here seems to be a self proclaimed expert about what is dangerous and what is safe to ski in the backcountry I would hope that you all remembered that nothing is ever the same from one aspect to another. Many of you stood on that safe little ridge and commented on those of us who were hiking the chutes and how stupid it was, but until you hike you butt up there and dig around in the snow, run tests and take readings then none of you can make any call about how safe or how dangerous that area is. I can’t stand half the people I meet in the backcountry, it always seems to be some sort of elite knowledge/experience pissing match! and just because I look to different lines and ski with a different style i get judged and labeled. As for the video and photos we have of that day... none of you will ever see any of it because I don’t care to try and impress you or care to be judged.

As for the other half of the people I meet in the backcountry, you guys are rad!

I agree with f_summer. if you don't like what someone is doing stay away from them or tell them you are feeling endangered by them. otherwise shut the fuck up and enjoy your day. oh and may i also suggest that some of you go get some ski lessons because most of the punters I saw that day couldn't link two turns together. Growing up skiing in europe I learned two things: slides happen no matter how cautious you are and when they do happen your best defense is being a strong skier. Actually nevermind you people can go on thinking that every aspect outside of your comfort zone is sketchy and therefore no one else should enjoy it. Have fun skiing mediocracy!

Well said dinglenuts!
Hopefully that kind of post will put an end to this bitchfest. :roll:

I agree with you f_summer. Often, people I meet out and about have a weird vibe, like they think, they're the only ones who should be there. Some are great but a lot think they are guides who's crap does n't stink. For such a small community, it's kinda odd :? .

here here!

just to put a euro perspective on the issue...
after spending a season in fernie and seeing what happens in fish bowl, people going in with no thought about snowpack... now i'm back in chamonix, and the same happens here, on bigger terrain.

you see it all the time, as a lot of our rideable terrain is out of bounds, and uncontrolled. even this week, on a very thin snowpack, with localised windloading from last week, and new snow on top, people seemed to go and ski anything, without checking out whats underneath the top layer (including big-ass crevasses... with snowbridges consisting of just two medium snowfalls...).

The conditions were generally pretty stable, but its the principle of rushing in there without seeming to take the conditions into account, and riding 2 or 3 people at a time...

i think that education is still really lacking in a lot of ski areas, especially around here. La Grave seems to have the right idea...

or, maybe i'm being a bit over cautious...
?

anyone else in cham got any ideas?

To Dinglenuts and f_summer,

If the "shut the f#@k up" comment was directed towards myself, then I don't think I intended for my post to come across as it might have, ...

Like yourselves, I also don't appreciate those who take on a self-righteous attitude, and love to talk down about others who are novices or make mistakes -- or at least seem to make "mistakes" based on their own self-centered perspective... so on that I agree...

But then.... Dingle, maybe your "oh and may I suggest that some of you go and get some ski lessons" might be part of that "weird vibe" that bullit is talking about??... If your so against people criticizing others in the backcountry, then why are you entitled to piss on other's skiing ability??

For the record, I wasn't at Bow Summit that weekend, and never saw what people were skiing. If people singled me out and called me a fool, for something I felt was fine, I'd be defensive as well.
But I think it fair game, at least on a "Smack Talk" forum, to critique the decisions of other skiers in terms of whether it was dangerous, risky, stupid, admirable, sick, awesome, or anything else. I DO see some skiers make bad choices out there -- I've made a few myself.

I don't think I should be the only one allowed out there... I just don't think it should be seen as a big free-for-all for the powder-hunting masses, as if people don't get killed out there...

I would much have beater skiers trained in avie rescue be around me than some sick skier with a din to 20

I lauged out loud! Your best defense is being a strong skier!!!! hahahahaha
True it may help but it is certainly not your best defense.
Good one dinglenutsonchin!

I was involved in a minor incident similar to this many years ago and was totally oblivious to the hazards at the time or proper safety measures, or even to be carrying the gear. After that I was very motivated to take courses and learn, read and learn, ski and learn. I would called it a negative experience with positive outcomes.

as long as people take something away from the experience and they use it to make better calls in the future thats fine by me. Ya sometimes you may get hurt sometimes, maybe not everytime, but regardless you may pay to play.

The scary people are the ones who say " gee i did everything right, my one comprssion test didn't even fail, the temperature gradient was good, the humidity was 65%, guess it was just a fluke avalanche. Let's go for another run"

one things for sure, i'm not in a rush to get turns in the early season...at least in the rockies.

um yeah, he didn;t say anything about rescue training moron, his point was that shit happens and someone who is a strong skier may be able to get out to the side or onto an island, whereas a weak skier has no chance

look into reading comprehension courses

hey dudes, chill out a bit...

Hey BigNadz
The reason I find humour in the statement "being a strong skier is your best defence" is because in dinglenuts' first post where he states he for sure knows his stuff.
It just made me chuckle thats all.
And calling me a moron really hurt my feelings.
I need to go call my mommy now or snuggle my teddy!